3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

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martymonsta
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3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby martymonsta » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:49 pm

I've been planning this for a while and about to kick the build off,

Image

It's a 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm MMT. Construction is going to be Glass over Phenolic, with G10 fins. I'm planning on using 2 part foam to tie the fin can together. As with all my high power builds i'm going to use single break duel deploy. The image of the sim about is probably a bit light as I'm yet to figure out how much weight is added by the glassing of the tube.

The main objective of the build is to a rocket that utilizes the constructions techniques and is capable of a flight profile that would exceed a 6" L3 flight.

A secondary objective would be to build it capable of deploying a CANSAT. While this would be nice it's not an necessity.

While I have no plans to fly it as a 2nd stage I would like to have it as an option down the track, so what's the best way to run a condute to the rear of the rocket. I just thought that I should think of it now instead later.
Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it

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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby Lamp » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:56 am

If you are coming to the Serpentine launch on Sunday drop in and see me for a chat. I'll explain what I did with the HV Arcus sustainer I built for Thunda.
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby jase » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:46 am

Cool project, I'm following.

One quick observation if I may, I notice on the sim image the motor is a K660-7...

...you might need longer than a 7 second delay on that one mate :wink: when you are adding the motors, select 'none' for the delay on dual-deploy projects. That will change it to K660-P.

When you add your recovery gear, in the 'General' tab you can select 'Deploys at:' drop down menu 'apogee' and 'Specific altitude during descent'...
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby drew » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:22 pm

Cool project Marty!

martymonsta wrote:A secondary objective would be to build it capable of deploying a CANSAT. While this would be nice it's not an necessity.


I'm not sure but I was under the impression that deploying anything from a high power rocket wasn't permitted, at least from a Tripoli perspective. I'm far from sure though. Anyone else want to chime in?
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby SpaceManMat » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:49 pm

drew wrote:Cool project Marty!

martymonsta wrote:A secondary objective would be to build it capable of deploying a CANSAT. While this would be nice it's not an necessity.


I'm not sure but I was under the impression that deploying anything from a high power rocket wasn't permitted, at least from a Tripoli perspective. I'm far from sure though. Anyone else want to chime in?

As long as it has a recovery device it should ok shouldnt it?
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby martymonsta » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:02 pm

Lamp wrote:If you are coming to the Serpentine launch on Sunday drop in and see me for a chat. I'll explain what I did with the HV Arcus sustainer I built for Thunda.


I'm not going to be able to make it up to serpentine this weekend :cry:

jase wrote:Cool project, I'm following.

One quick observation if I may, I notice on the sim image the motor is a K660-7...

...you might need longer than a 7 second delay on that one mate :wink: when you are adding the motors, select 'none' for the delay on dual-deploy projects. That will change it to K660-P.

When you add your recovery gear, in the 'General' tab you can select 'Deploys at:' drop down menu 'apogee' and 'Specific altitude during descent'...


I hadn't even noticed that. I had the drouge set to apogee and main set to specific altitude during descent. So it made no difference.

drew wrote:Cool project Marty!

martymonsta wrote:A secondary objective would be to build it capable of deploying a CANSAT. While this would be nice it's not an necessity.


I'm not sure but I was under the impression that deploying anything from a high power rocket wasn't permitted, at least from a Tripoli perspective. I'm far from sure though. Anyone else want to chime in?


The TRA Saftey Code states,
E. Recovery.
1. Fly a rocket only if it contains a recovery system that will return all parts of it safely to the ground so that it may be flown again.


The AMRS code says the same thing, so as Matt said, as long as the CANSAT has a recovery device it should be OK. The AeroPac Club (TRA Prefecture #23) has been doing this under the ARLISS program since '99.
Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it

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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby Scoop1261 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:16 pm

martymonsta wrote:
The TRA Saftey Code states,
E. Recovery.
1. Fly a rocket only if it contains a recovery system that will return all parts of it safely to the ground so that it may be flown again.


The AMRS code says the same thing, so as Matt said, as long as the CANSAT has a recovery device it should be OK. The AeroPac Club (TRA Prefecture #23) has been doing this under the ARLISS program since '99.


Actually it's not a safety code thing, it's more of a CASA thing.

CASR 1998 Part 101 Subpart 101.H

101.460 Dropping or discharging of things from rockets
(1) A person must not cause anything to be dropped or discharged from a rocket in a way that creates a hazard to an aircraft.

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note for strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.

I would suggest you would need to demonstrate to the RSO, Launch Director or Instrument Holder that your CANSAT will not cause hazard to any aircraft in the first instance; lest they wish to take up a new hobby in soap carving.
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby martymonsta » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:23 pm

Scoop1261 wrote:Actually it's not a safety code thing, it's more of a CASA thing.

CASR 1998 Part 101 Subpart 101.H

101.460 Dropping or discharging of things from rockets
(1) A person must not cause anything to be dropped or discharged from a rocket in a way that creates a hazard to an aircraft.

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note for strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.

I would suggest you would need to demonstrate to the RSO, Launch Director or Instrument Holder that your CANSAT will not cause hazard to any aircraft in the first instance; lest they wish to take up a new hobby in soap carving.


Thanks Dave and spot on. If there is a beech of 101.460 then 101.B has been breached as well and the Safety Code hasn't been followed.

CASR 1998 Part 101 Subpart 101.B

101.050 Applicability of this Subpart
This Subpart applies to the operation of all unmanned aircraft and rockets that are not aircraft, whether or not any of Subparts C to I applies.

101.055 Hazardous operation prohibited
(1) A person must not operate an unmanned aircraft in a way that creates a hazard to another aircraft, another person, or property.

(3A) An offence against subregulation (1), (2) or (3) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it

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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby Lamp » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:34 am

It is a pity you cannot be there tomorrow Marty.

The most important thing to think about is the interstage. I used a coupler from the transition going 1 diameter into the base of the sustainer. This means you cannot go TTW with your fins in this area....well you can if you slot the coupler but there are problems with doing that. It also means your aft CR has to be much further inside your BT, above the interstage coupler. I just used good external fillets on the bottom half of the fins but I had planned to glass them "tip to tip" (I ran out of time, I had to build the Sparrow/Arcas in less than 2weeks for Thunda).

For igniter conduit, I picked up some (I think) 4mm CF tube from "the Hobbyman" who are now in Narre Warren". This is just big enough to take one set of igniter wires. If you want to use a second igniter, use 2 conduits.

It is important how you mount the conduit(s) because it/they have to be clear of the interstage but you also want it running hard against your body tube in the main part of your rocket. I used 3 CR on my MM and slotted the forward 2 so the conduit would run tight along the inside of the BT. I slotted the Aft one deeper so when I epoxied the cunduit in I could bend it towards the MM so it would clear the interstage coupler.

I hope this helps... Or at least gives you some ideas.
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby martymonsta » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:25 pm

Ok it has been a while, where were we? I was getting distracted about trying to build a 2 stage rocket when I should have been focusing on what the build was actually about, learning construction techniques. So I took a quick step back and refocused, this will not be a 2 stager, that can wait for another build.

So I started by glassing the phenolic tube, using a single wrap of 125 gsm weave fiberglass and west systems 105/205 epoxy, I would rather use the 206 hardener, but the low single digit temperatures in my garage meant that it would never harden. I basically used the method demonstrated by John Coker other then using Glad Bake instead of mylar.



The lower airframe weighed 283g before glass and 344g after, a 21.5% increase, the upper airframe 165g before and 198g after, a 20% increase. I tried to get a 1:1 weight ratio glass to epoxy but couldn't spread it far enough.

On the fin can and MMT I used 5min epoxy for tacking together and Epox-E-Glue from Bote-Cote for the fillets. This was the first time I used a thixotropic glue and wow it was easy, a lot easier then thickening 105/205-6, however the real proof will be in the flying. I also thought I would try tie wiring the fins and using 2 part foam. I think I went a bit heavy on the gauge wire and will probably use 0.9mm mig wire the next time. The 2 part foam worked well, the foam I have is 25:1 so measuring 7ml of both parts and then mixing and pouring it evenly was a bit tricky but manageable. I didn't get to many pics through this part of the build as my hands were generally pretty sticky. however here is one from when I had the fins tacked in.

Image

and another with the business end near finished

Image

after being not happy with the rotary switches in the vent band of my L2 bird, I went looking for a better way to do things and thought that I would try an access hatch. however I can't finish the hatch till i've got the avbay finalized and that is where there have been some delays. however in the last few days i've made some progress so here is the altimeter sled with a Raven3 and a RRC3 as backup

Image

and on the other sled is the BRB900

Image

the method that I had come up with for holding the sleds to the all thread failed (more correctly I couldn't slide them off the all tread) last night however I think I have a solution.
Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it

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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby OverTheTop » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:07 pm

I tried to get a 1:1 weight ratio glass to epoxy but couldn't spread it far enough.


Mix up resin, to a weight of 110% of the cloth (weigh it before mixing the resin). The 10% allows for what sticks in the container and brushes. I have found this works on all except the most coarse cloths, where you need a little more.
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby jase » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:02 pm

Looks good Marty, nice work.

How many ways to skin a cat! OTT is on the right track, you'll need to mix up a bit more resin - the cardboard tube will also absorb some of the resin, and yes, you'll never get all of the resin out of the cup, off the rollers or scrapers etc...

I prefer to wet out the cloth directly on the tube using high density foam rollers; give the tube a coat of resin, apply the cloth to it, roll it on as you go and either apply peel ply (for MMT tubes or booster section) or mylar for a nice high gloss surface. Although, I find it difficult to get the mylar perfect...

If you use peel ply, when you peel it off it takes away excess resin thus reducing overall weight - if you use mylar, you'll get your nice finish but will have excess resin/weight on the component...

Then, with regard to resin:cloth ratio - you are better to be too wet than too dry, the peel ply will sort that out for you :roll:

Hey, absolutely nothing wrong with Coker's method either, I'm just saying 'more than one way to skin a cat' :wink:

Again, really nice work mate looking forward to seeing this one fly :D 8)
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby OverTheTop » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Too right Jase. Perforated peel ply lets you butter it up a bit more and remove the excess resin. Watch out though, there is perforated and non-perforated peel ply.
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby Lamp » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:05 pm

I'm also looking forward to seeing this fly...you all know I kind of like the Arcas ;-)
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Re: 3" HV ARCUS with a 54mm hole

Postby martymonsta » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:20 pm

Well I pushed hard late last year to get the ARCUS complete and it was probably only a couple of nights worth of work away from being flyable, when the Oct TRAAU launch scrubbed. So I sat on my work bench. And then last weekend I figured that I should do the ground testing and since I had a couple of days up my sleeve, slap some paint on it.

So I checked that I could get the air frame apart


and that the tender descender works, (it was .25g of BP, not 2.5g :shock: )


and then slapped some paint on it.
Image

So the plan for the weekend is to give it a shakedown on an I345 and if that goes ok, see how she goes on a K260
Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it

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AMRS #41 L2/LCO/RSO/CO


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