Curing Oven questions

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SpaceManMat
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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Wed May 03, 2017 8:17 pm

CATO wrote:I was going to revert with the below, but not knowing which internal relay you are intending to untilise throws a variable into the mix.

--------------------------------------------



SinfulDarkLord wrote:
CATO wrote:A quick 30 sec glace, it looks the same as my diags... (But please check and verify yourself)

Pin 6 thermostat to pin 4 SSR (Negative)
Pin 8 thermostat to pin 3 SSR (Positive 12V)


You are correct, but my model has the output relay. I assume that configuration would still be correct, however I assume that a wire needs to go from Pin 7 to Pin 8 to complete the circuit when the relay in the thermostat turns on.

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Very sorry I misunderstood (I did say a 30 second look), it's one or the other configurations but not both.

From the schematic you provided, I'm assuming that the thermostat will not be able to provide the extra low voltage required to switch the SSR, so I think you have 2 options, 1, swap out the thermostat for one that can provide the extra low voltage to drive the SSR, or 2, remove the SSR from the circuit and have the thermostats relay switch the load (caveat - the relay needs to be rated at 110 volts and have a higher current rating than the load you intend to switch). If the load is greater than the rated current of the relay, then you will need a contactor as stated previously.

To utilise the internal relay to switch the load (110 volts) you need to connect the "Commom" (pin 7) to the active supply voltage (110 volts) and the "N/O" (pin 8.) to the load (power outlet active pin), this becomes the active switch wire..

Good luck.

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Yes good point, what is the output relay in the thermostat rated at? How many volts and amps?

This will determine if you need a external relay and what sort.
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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Wed May 03, 2017 11:27 pm

CATO wrote:I was going to revert with the below, but not knowing which internal relay you are intending to untilise throws a variable into the mix.

--------------------------------------------



SinfulDarkLord wrote:
CATO wrote:A quick 30 sec glace, it looks the same as my diags... (But please check and verify yourself)

Pin 6 thermostat to pin 4 SSR (Negative)
Pin 8 thermostat to pin 3 SSR (Positive 12V)


You are correct, but my model has the output relay. I assume that configuration would still be correct, however I assume that a wire needs to go from Pin 7 to Pin 8 to complete the circuit when the relay in the thermostat turns on.

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Very sorry I misunderstood (I did say a 30 second look), it's one or the other configurations but not both.

From the schematic you provided, I'm assuming that the thermostat will not be able to provide the extra low voltage required to switch the SSR, so I think you have 2 options, 1, swap out the thermostat for one that can provide the extra low voltage to drive the SSR, or 2, remove the SSR from the circuit and have the thermostats relay switch the load (caveat - the relay needs to be rated at 110 volts and have a higher current rating than the load you intend to switch). If the load is greater than the rated current of the relay, then you will need a contactor as stated previously.

To utilise the internal relay to switch the load (110 volts) you need to connect the "Commom" (pin 7) to the active supply voltage (110 volts) and the "N/O" (pin 8.) to the load (power outlet active pin), this becomes the active switch wire..

Good luck.

Sent from my iPhone


Thanks CATO,

Looks like I will need that contactor to power both 500 watt ceramic heaters for a total of 1,000 watts. The relay is only rated to 3A being only 360 watts with 120V of input power. I did hook it up this way with only one ceramic heater to power it on and it appeared to work. However, out of fear of damaging the relay I opted to get a solid state relay, only of course to find out that it does not work with one.

I think my best option is to swap out the thermostat with the model that works with the SSR.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby CATO » Thu May 04, 2017 6:57 am

I think you require the ITC-106VH variant, not the ITC-106RH one.
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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Sun May 07, 2017 2:45 pm

CATO wrote:I think you require the ITC-106VH variant, not the ITC-106RH one.


It looks like I will have to go that route. I have already placed the order for the VH varient.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Mon May 08, 2017 4:48 am

I want to thank everyone who has helped me out in this thread. The oven is working greater than expected.

I have test runned the oven under one ceramic tile and reaches the desired temperature without issue.

Image

Soon it will operate under two ceramic tiles, while I wait for the new thermostat and then it will reach temperatures much higher than 180F. Not much more than 212F.

Thank you guys once again.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby CATO » Mon May 08, 2017 6:45 am

:D
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3

Impulse:
2017: 5,973 Ns (13.14% M)
Ns 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Mon May 08, 2017 6:23 pm

Nice one SDL.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 10,849 feet
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Tue May 09, 2017 10:19 am

SpaceManMat wrote:Nice one SDL.


Thank you spacemanmat and thank you for the help.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Tue May 09, 2017 10:29 am

Okay guys one last final challenge here, I need to figure out these PID settings. Due to the nature of the ceramic tiles. They tend to take time to heat up again and this gives me the issue where the temperature can drop too much. I need it to where it rises and then slows down to get to the temperature and then of course keeps going on and off at an even rate to maintane the temperature to where I want it.

Hopefully you guys can provide some insight on this. This has been really difficult for me.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby OverTheTop » Tue May 09, 2017 1:16 pm

Probably try this:
Turn I & D back to zero
Adjust P term up until it has a suitably small error (between setpoint and actual). How close is up to you (the system designer!). The higher the gain the less the offset error. If you take it up too far it will oscillate.
Adjust the I term up until it settles to the final setpoint in an acceptable time. If you set it too high it will oscillate.
Build rocket part and bake in oven.

Leave the D term at zero generally (PI control), unless you have to really tightly optimise the control loop for ultimate fast response. Even then any changes to the equipment (eg what you are trying to heat inside the cabinet) change all the optimum settings, and can cause oscillations.

Try not to push it too hard for gain. If you make the settings marginal for oscillations then on a hot day it might oscillate, but on a cold day it might behave. That is because of the "gain" of the mechanical "plant" which is also in the control loop and part of the system.

Remember, if it oscillates, the gain(s) is/are too high somewhere, which generally points to your expectations for settling time being too enthusiastic.

Enjoy!
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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Tue May 09, 2017 1:36 pm

OverTheTop wrote:Probably try this:
Turn I & D back to zero
Adjust P term up until it has a suitably small error (between setpoint and actual). How close is up to you (the system designer!). The higher the gain the less the offset error. If you take it up too far it will oscillate.
Adjust the I term up until it settles to the final setpoint in an acceptable time. If you set it too high it will oscillate.
Build rocket part and bake in oven.

Leave the D term at zero generally (PI control), unless you have to really tightly optimise the control loop for ultimate fast response. Even then any changes to the equipment (eg what you are trying to heat inside the cabinet) change all the optimum settings, and can cause oscillations.

Try not to push it too hard for gain. If you make the settings marginal for oscillations then on a hot day it might oscillate, but on a cold day it might behave. That is because of the "gain" of the mechanical "plant" which is also in the control loop and part of the system.

Remember, if it oscillates, the gain(s) is/are too high somewhere, which generally points to your expectations for settling time being too enthusiastic.

Enjoy!


Thanks over the top, that appears to make a bit more sense. I will run a few more test runs. One thing is I cant put I to zero. I dont know why they set it that way, but it can only go down to one second. D I can set to zero just fine.


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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby OverTheTop » Tue May 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Just set it to minimum and it should be the best starting point. I am assuming that 1s is a mimimum gain setting. Not sure, would need to think about or research this. It is a gain factor (ki) we need to minimise, so maybe it might just be a bigger number if it is specified in seconds. If it oscillates, set it the other way!
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Re: Curing Oven questions

Postby SinfulDarkLord » Tue May 09, 2017 4:21 pm

OverTheTop wrote:Just set it to minimum and it should be the best starting point. I am assuming that 1s is a mimimum gain setting. Not sure, would need to think about or research this. It is a gain factor (ki) we need to minimise, so maybe it might just be a bigger number if it is specified in seconds. If it oscillates, set it the other way!


It does not specify in seconds, percentage or anything that can help me identify how much I need, which makes it even more difficult for me. I guess a quick message to inkbird might help.


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