L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

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L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Hello,
I'm aiming for L2 attempt next year.

While, I'm still only about 1/2 through the build, I'm putting some thought into what other things need to be done to ensure a seamless L2 attempt. So I have a few questions.

1. I've always assumed that a Launch from Cedar Grove is okay, but realised that I need to be mindful of the 5000 feet limit. This shouldn't be a problem though; I can just choose an appropriately sized motor. [using a 1515 rail]. I assume a L2 attempt from Cedar is okay?
[Actually I just realised...don't CASA need to be advised of any HPR flights, or is this covered under the existing Instrument?]


2. I've noticed the following :-
"Please note: Members wishing to fly high power rockets (generally H motors or greater) will also be required to attain the relevant AMRS HPR certification and explosives license."
Do I really need to get the "Explosives Licence" if I fly at the club meet? [I may be repeating questions I asked several years ago, but think it is important I double check].

3. I'd like to do some Unit tests of the Recovery system, (with charges) before I bring it down to Gold-coast. Do I need to get my Explosives licence to get the Black Powder (??) to do this?

Is there anything I should be mindful of?

Obviously I'm going to be immerse myself in all the literature at the QRS site and elsewhere (for the oral exam) and I also want to try to get the LSO again.

Thanks Muchly.

Joseph
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby kopius » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:50 pm

Hi Joe,

1. 1010 or 1515 is fine and available at all QRS launches. The instrument is primarily for HPR launches and that allows a NOTAM to be issued for the activities on the day, irrelevant of how many launches or their impulses. Cedar Grove has seen many certification flights including L1, L2 and L3, so using the right motor you can attempt your certifications and remain under the ceiling height.

2. Simple answer is yes. This is a legislative requirement that people who wish to possess, store, transport and use HPR motors are required to obtain their explosives license. The only exemption if for people who are certifying L1 (or L1/L2 at the same event).

3. Your explosives license for rocketry permits you to buy and use black powder, so there are multiple benefits to having it. It also allows you to buy the motors and take them offsite.

Like anything, preparation is key. Asking question like you have will certainly make sure you tick the right boxes. For anyone doing their certifications, it is advantageous to complete things like your L2 exam online before hand to relieve any stress of doing it onsite.

Looking forward to seeing your rocket punch some holes in the sky!
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby OverTheTop » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:09 pm

Hi Joe. Good luck with the L2 build and flight.

One piece of advice I will offer is that you don't know what you don't know. Neither do I for that matter :) These are the things that sometimes bite.

Asking questions is great, but sometimes we don't know what to ask. Make sure you watch someone else assembling their motors and prepping their rockets. A lot of what you need to know is written in books etc, but sometimes salient points can be learned from seeing others' preparing.

Have fun!
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:52 pm

Thanks Blake. Thanks OTT.

Much appreciated. Plenty to keep my busy!

OTT. Yes, I think it would be very beneficial to observe set-up and flight of rocket with similar sort of flight profile. And in person would be so very helpful, interesting (and fun!).

I've often thought about the Mentor program on the QRS website, but assumed that me, being in Cairns pretty much puts a stop to that idea.

Cairns is a lovely place to live - but so far from anything. Anyhow, you've given me a few ideas. I'll follow them up.

Cheers

Joe
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby crom » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:09 pm

I've often thought about the Mentor program on the QRS website, but assumed that me, being in Cairns pretty much puts a stop to that idea.


No reason it has to... I'm confident the mentor scheme can work online, let me know if you are interested in being involved and we can try and put you in touch with someone in the club...
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:43 am

crom wrote:
I've often thought about the Mentor program on the QRS website, but assumed that me, being in Cairns pretty much puts a stop to that idea.


No reason it has to... I'm confident the mentor scheme can work online, let me know if you are interested in being involved and we can try and put you in touch with someone in the club...


Good point there is always Skype.

The other thing is simply to start a build thread here and simply ask questions as you go. Plenty of people will help you out.
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Thanks Guys.

Yes, no question about it, the forums have been invaluable. I've learnt an incredibly amount.

Crom: I'll get in touch with you on PM if that is okay.
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:15 pm

I have a question about launch equipment at Cedar.

1. What is the height of launch rails (1515) and (1010) that are in use at Cedar Grove? When I say height, I mean from the point the rocket rests, to the tip. I need this so I can do some checks on rocket velocity as it leaves the rail.

Thanks

Joe
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:36 pm

The 1010 rails are 1.7m and 3.5m
QRS: 124
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:16 pm

Thanks Matt.

Another launch preparation question.

I've done sims up and I'm thinking I'll need to go for a K515-SK-13 . This will get up to _about_ 1350metres (4430 feet).
This is below 5000 ft ceiling (with 10% safety margin).

Is this safety margin adequate?

Cheers

Joe
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby OverTheTop » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:55 pm

The accuracy of the sim depends on the type of rocket and the program used. Rocksim is usually optomistic and reads high, and I have heard that OR generally reads low. If it is a fairly straightforward rocket design this is likely to hold true.

Make sure you have the final mass correct for the unloaded rocket in the sim.

I have had RS underestimate apogee too, just to muddy the waters :)
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:12 am

People have flown to that height before at cedar grove so don't see it being an issue. One thing to keep in mind is that I beleive it is AMSL, so you really don't want to go much higher.
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:06 am

Yes - good idea - I'll get RS going. Good way to do a comparison.

I read that Ceda Grove is about 215 feet above Sea Level.

Ok, so if AMSL, even more important I know what it can do (or go for a slightly less powerful motor)

Cheers!!
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby joeman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:10 am

Hello,
I'm 90% of the way through these forms for the Explosives Licence...
* All JP stuff done
* All ID stuff
* Photos done

Been sitting here for 3 weeks in a yellow envelope, trying to finish off the last bits....make sure it is right.

Blake: Can you please send me the QRS letter please so that I can include it in the application?


I have a few questions regarding the form. Hoping someone might be able to help.

** "Have you been assessed as competent in the use of explosives within the past 5 years". I assume this is more for Shotfirerers...but I'm ticking "NO".

** "Proposed storage method and location for explosives" - I was going to put that I don't intend on storing any of explosives that are allowed under the License - that I would be purchasing/using directly at launch site.


** Statement of Reason: Required so that I can perform my L2 Attempt and future launches at QRS launch sites.


** I've made sure I have ticked "Propellant powders" and "Other" (= Parachute Ejection Charge)

I did up a small letter essentially just saying I've got L1 cert and I'm going for L2...and this requires it. Pretty simple stuff. Though it is obvious to me what I require it for...thought I should include it, just so it is clear to them.

Another question. I am assuming the licence is for L1. (Because that is what I have obtained). I assume that after L2, if I wish to do other L2 flights, that I would need to re-apply for updated Explosives Licence?



Thanks!!


Joe
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Re: L2 Attempt Launch 2018 Questions

Postby SpaceManMat » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:42 am

In response to you questions:


I have a few questions regarding the form. Hoping someone might be able to help.

1."Have you been assessed as competent in the use of explosives within the past 5 years". I assume this is more for Shotfirerers...but I'm ticking "NO".
No sure about this

2. "Proposed storage method and location for explosives" - I was going to put that I don't intend on storing any of explosives that are allowed under the License - that I would be purchasing/using directly at launch site.
What about black powder?, also there are times when you'll purchase but not fly for some reason.

2. Statement of Reason: Required so that I can perform my L2 Attempt and future launches at QRS launch sites.
I'd say something like in the pursuit of high powered ameture rocketry.


3. I've made sure I have ticked "Propellant powders" and "Other" (= Parachute Ejection Charge)
My licence says Propellant Powders, HP Rocket Motors

4. I did up a small letter essentially just saying I've got L1 cert and I'm going for L2...and this requires it. Pretty simple stuff. Though it is obvious to me what I require it for...thought I should include it, just so it is clear to them.
Should be fine.

5. I am assuming the licence is for L1. (Because that is what I have obtained). I assume that after L2, if I wish to do other L2 flights, that I would need to re-apply for updated Explosives Licence?
My licence does not mention a level. I put any certification attempts in I'm my log that they required end of year.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 10,849 feet
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing


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