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bejo
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Newbie

Postby bejo » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:14 am

Hi all,

First time poster however I have been enjoying this forum for 12 or so months now. Great community and I want to say HI !! and ask a question.

A little about me - I have been building rockets for about 3 years, I roll out the telescope when the weather permits and attempt some astrophotography (which I'm rubbish at). I love watching the ISS, to the point where I pull over if I am driving...oh and I regularly watch the online NASA ISS feed. Yep hook...line...and sinker.

I dont know anyone in my area who is into rockets/space and everyone looks at me strangely when I start talking about anything related. The Mrs thinks I want to have Elons baby..well that part might be true...c'mon...raptor ?!?!?!?

Started with a couple of LPR kits from the local toy store here in NE Melbourne and quickly moved on to scratch building D and E size rockets. I make everything from turning the nose cone on a lathe, fins, engine mounts, chutes, couplers and retainers. I had an E motor cato at about 10 feet and decided to make a wireless launcher using a couple of Arduino's which was fun although I never got it off the proto boards.

Now looking at moving into 60mm fibreglass and joining a club to get the certs and fly on G + H motors. So here is my question - are you able to obtain certs using your own scratch built rockets ?. To be honest I am not interested so much in kits having flown scratch built 60mm and minimum diameter E's successfully. Its all about the challenge :)

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CATO
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Re: Newbie

Postby CATO » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:36 am

Hi Bejo and welcome to the forum.
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2018: 14,767 Ns (44% N)
Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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OverTheTop
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Re: Newbie

Postby OverTheTop » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:32 am

Welcome to the forum bejo.

No problems doing certifications with scratch-built rockets at all. Go for it! If you are looking for a good range of fiberglass Ausrocketry had a good selecting of tubes and fin material in assorted colors.

Fiberglass makes for good strong rockets. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it is well worth the transition from cardboard. I do have to admit I have not yet tried some of the other material like phenolic, bluetube or quantum tube.

One tip. Don't forget to wash the f/g when you get it with a mix of water and metho (about 20% metho I use) with a small amount of detergent in it. This gets rid of any mold-release agents still on the material, making for a better bond when you glue. Do this BEFORE doing any work on the parts to keep the tools etc clean as well.
TRA #13430
L3
"Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

vance2loud
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Re: Newbie

Postby vance2loud » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:34 am

Welcome Bejo. There is some great guys in Victoria and a club with a great launch site in Serpentine. If you want to play around with designs for your rockets openrocket can be a very helpful software tool. It will allow you to simulate your designs before and during building which can save a lot of time and money. If you have any questions please ask us here as we are always willing to help when we can. Sometimes the simplest things can get a lot of different answers in this hobby and we can all learn from a question that we hadn't thought to ask. Unfortunately the next high power launch is a few months away now in Victoria due to fire restrictions over summer but it's a good time for designing and building any models ready for next year's launches.
TRA #15165 AMRS #50
I do it because i can, I can because I want to, I want to because you said I couldn't. - Unknown
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Alva Edison

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SpaceManMat
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Re: Newbie

Postby SpaceManMat » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:48 am

Welcome to the forums Bejo.
I recommend you start a build thread and amongst pictures etc post a simulation file. If you turn up to club launch with a scratch built rocket having never flown with the club before your build will be subject to a fair amount of skepticism. Much better to show us all how you built and designed it and you'll learn lots along the way. Don't be afraid to ask questions, the ideas for certification isn't to do a perfect build, instead it is to demonstrate that you have learnt enough to fly with lesser supervision.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
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vance2loud
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Re: Newbie

Postby vance2loud » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:08 am

SpaceManMat wrote: the ideas for certification isn't to do a perfect build, instead it is to demonstrate that you have learnt enough to fly with lesser supervision.

that is possibly the best worded logic I've seen as a reason for certification. A perfect example of what I mean about a simple question\statement being a help to others who hadn't asked a question.
TRA #15165 AMRS #50
I do it because i can, I can because I want to, I want to because you said I couldn't. - Unknown
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Alva Edison

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CATO
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Re: Newbie

Postby CATO » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:35 am

vance2loud wrote:
SpaceManMat wrote: the ideas for certification isn't to do a perfect build, instead it is to demonstrate that you have learnt enough to fly with lesser supervision.

that is possibly the best worded logic I've seen as a reason for certification. A perfect example of what I mean about a simple question\statement being a help to others who hadn't asked a question.

+1
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2018: 14,767 Ns (44% N)
Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

october sky
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Re: Newbie

Postby october sky » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:38 am

Welcome to the forum Bejo and have a blast....and it looks like you already do ! :wink: 8)

Ari
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TRA #11616 L3

bejo
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Re: Newbie

Postby bejo » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:05 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome all.

"the ideas for certification isn't to do a perfect build, instead it is to demonstrate that you have learnt enough to fly with lesser supervision."

This is actually the motivation as I know I am moving into an area where the potential outcomes can be more serious. I look at a bigger rocket and see a heap of potential energy....and I know what I dont know.

I have been using openrocket at the start and end of a build to at least get the CP right and then test CG although I havent used any electronics to see how accurate I have been getting them. I do have an idea I will put to the forum regarding rear chute deployment that I am not entirely sure about. Perhaps someone has tried something similar before before.

Lamp
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Newbie

Postby Lamp » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:11 am

Hi Bejo and welcome.

A scratch built rocket is fine to use for certification, but it has to be passed by the RSO (Range safety officer) at a launch to be able to fly.

I have read about people using rear deployment and some odd-rockets use it, but it tends to be more complex than forward deployment and therefore there are more ways for it to fail. It is kind of the last resort option when there is no space in the top of a rocket for conventional deployment.

Open rocket is a great program!

Our first launch at Serpentine next year is scheduled for April (depending on fire conditions) and you should come along!
‘It takes sixty-five thousand errors before you are qualified to make a rocket.’ — Werhner von Braun
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natty
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Re: Newbie

Postby natty » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:44 am

Hi Bejo

Welcome to the forum and hope to see you at Serpentine next year.

Cheers
Nat
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lucifer911
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Re: Newbie

Postby lucifer911 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:32 pm

Hi Bejo,

Welcome to the forum I am in Adelaide.
It is great to find another member who is into astronomy - both rocketry and astronomy are like oxygen and water.

What kind of telescope do you have? do you have any recommendations on a beginner telescope? (budget is around $400-$600)
how far in Melbourne do you have to drive to find a suitable area with no light pollution? I am interested in the planets especially Mercury, Neptune, Saturn, Uranus. So I need something with a suitable aperture to be able to see those planets. Are you a fan of reflector telescopes? dobsonians, refractors or the expensive cassegrain telescopes?

As for rocketry I have flown LPRs for a few months and about to test a few Ds and E motors.
I am chasing my L1 too but have to wait until next year.

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Viking
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Re: Newbie

Postby Viking » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:52 pm

Hi Bejo!
It surprises me how many people that get into rocketry also have an interest in Astronomy.
It would seem to make sense, space = NASA etc, but for me there was no Astronomy/Rocketry connection.
Are you a member over at IceInSpace forums?
Simon
WARS #24 / AMRS #54 L2

bejo
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Re: Newbie

Postby bejo » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:41 am

Lucifer911 - I started with a small 2nd hand non-computerized refactor and quickly moved to a Nextstar 6se as they seemed popular and one of the cheapest cassegrain scopes so I cannot really same much beyond those. I am probably not the best person to be giving out advise and can only comment on what I have experienced.

A while ago I was lucky enough to go on the roof of Latrobe uni here in Melbourne with some of the astronomy staff and students. They had an ancient refactor that required at least 3 people to operate it which was heaps of fun, a 10" no collapsible dob and an nexstar 8se. If I wasnt interested in photography I would have gone for the 10" dob. Massive scope but there was a sense of romance to it if you know what I mean ?. Non-computerized scopes require a significant amount skill though. Aperture dictates how much light you can capture so the larger the aperture the sharper the image. You can still see the same objects in our solar system with a smaller aperture scope but you get blurring of the image with higher magnification.

The same variables that affect the smaller aperture scopes affect the larger ones. If its a hot night, the object is low on the horizon or there is a decent amount of light pollution you are neither here not there in terms of aperture. I have family about 20k form Euroa which had significantly less light pollution than outside of Echuca/Moama - may as well have been in Melbourne. Having said that there are some deep space objects you cannot see without a large aperture computerized scope with a camera taking long exposure shots. To view most nebula (within reason) with a 6se it has to be very, very dark.

I dont think I will ever forget the first time a saw Saturn through a scope, if you havent seen it I wont spoil it for you :). Neptune appeared crescent and the purest blue I have ever seen. Jupiter is a MONSTER. Oh, and get a moon filter if you value your eye sight....

No not a member of IceInSpace. I usually beat my head against a brick wall until I cannot solve a problem then I join forums : )


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