South Australian regulations

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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby kopius » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:28 pm

neddy1967 wrote:Unfortunately the rules in S.A. are very restrictive. Even lighting a C is seen as a firework so you could get into trouble if you haven't filled out the forms to possess the black powder engine along with fireworks license, council approval etc etc.


Hi Neddy,

I don't think this is accurate. Yes, the SA rules are pretty terrible, however these small rocket motors do not require fireworks licenses or council approvals etc. Please feel free to show where it stipulates this as there shouldn't be misrepresentation of the rules.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby Reznal » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:00 pm

kopius wrote:
neddy1967 wrote:Unfortunately the rules in S.A. are very restrictive. Even lighting a C is seen as a firework so you could get into trouble if you haven't filled out the forms to possess the black powder engine along with fireworks license, council approval etc etc.


Hi Neddy,

I don't think this is accurate. Yes, the SA rules are pretty terrible, however these small rocket motors do not require fireworks licenses or council approvals etc. Please feel free to show where it stipulates this as there shouldn't be misrepresentation of the rules.


I thought we could use up to C class? the place I bought my motors from specifically says on d engines they can ship anywhere but SA. Other than this I have not been able to find any specific information on what you need your licence for.. going to call worksafe tomorrow and see what they require to get my firework licence..

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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby Reznal » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:07 pm

neddy1967 wrote:Hi Reznal
I know what you mean I have a gimbal in front of me that I printed out of Polycarbonate, Rasberry Pi's, Arduinos and servos. Do I bother putting it together because I don't have anywhere to even static fire it. Way to stifle innovation S.A..
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Have you looked into the process of getting the firework licence by any chance?
I think we really need a reform here, you would think having model rockets allowed with a club for larger launches would fit right in to wanting SA to be the space capitol of Aus

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Re: RE: Re: South Australian regulations

Postby kopius » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:07 pm

Reznal wrote:
kopius wrote:
neddy1967 wrote:Unfortunately the rules in S.A. are very restrictive. Even lighting a C is seen as a firework so you could get into trouble if you haven't filled out the forms to possess the black powder engine along with fireworks license, council approval etc etc.


Hi Neddy,

I don't think this is accurate. Yes, the SA rules are pretty terrible, however these small rocket motors do not require fireworks licenses or council approvals etc. Please feel free to show where it stipulates this as there shouldn't be misrepresentation of the rules.


I thought we could use up to C class? the place I bought my motors from specifically says on d engines they can ship anywhere but SA. Other than this I have not been able to find any specific information on what you need your licence for.. going to call worksafe tomorrow and see what they require to get my firework licence..
You don't need a fireworks license!

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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby neddy1967 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:42 am

https://www.safework.sa.gov.au/licence- ... s-licences
If you want to have a composite motor a pyrotechicians license is required. If you want to store over 3kg in total you need to have a magazine license. They specifically call out model rocket engines. There is some exemptions but the definitions are nebulous. If the local council deems the rocket to be a firework as does the rest of S.A. Govt, a fireworks display permit will be required. I researched this to try to do everything by the book but it became very expensive.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby neddy1967 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:50 am

I forgot you will also need to pass a Police check.
Having said all that you could just say stuff it I bought these Estes motors in Melbourne and I'm going down to the park to let them off but if anyone sees you in this cancel culture we live in the police will probably come for a visit then you will have to explain the lack of paperwork. There is also air clearance if it goes over 400 feet. This one is a hassle for RC glider pilots as well.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby kopius » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:55 pm

Neddy, I think you are misreading a lot of the rules.

If you want to fly above D, all you need is a permit purchase. Normally a club would have that and individuals are covered under that. AMRS holds a PtP.

As for the 400feet rule, this also depends on the size of rocket and the surrounding airspace. Check out:
https://rocketry.org.au/wp-content/uplo ... 120201.pdf
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby neddy1967 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:37 pm

Hi
I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong and to be able to fly the smaller rockets I have built. Unfortunately after discussing this with my cohorts in Dept of Premier and Cabinet one of which actually certified on an M in 2006 in S.A. the sentiment was "these rules are in place to protect us from ourselves". This speaks to the ultra conservative nature of the nanny state and the willingness to prosecute on a technicality. I believe this is what has driven the old AARC down the path of "private" launches and a Facebook page only. I'm not sure it is purely insurance driven. Anyway more than happy for somebody to show me where I'm wrong on a Govt website or documentation. Even a phone call would do. I want to fly.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby drew » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:53 pm

neddy1967 wrote:If you want to have a composite motor a pyrotechicians license is required.

Black powder motors are exempt then as they're not composite motors?

neddy1967 wrote:Unfortunately after discussing this with my cohorts in Dept of Premier and Cabinet one of which actually certified on an M in 2006 in S.A. the sentiment was "these rules are in place to protect us from ourselves".

Was that in writing? I ask as often government bureaucrats will say the thing that makes the least amount of work for them. If it's in writing they're much more conscious of that and put a bit more effort in, so to speak.

neddy1967 wrote:This speaks to the ultra conservative nature of the nanny state and the willingness to prosecute on a technicality.

That seems to be a bit of conjecture. Has anyone actually been prosecuted for this?

neddy1967 wrote:I believe this is what has driven the old AARC down the path of "private" launches and a Facebook page only.


I'm sorry, but are you implying the AARC is launching in private in SA expressly against the laws that exist there? Last time I heard of them they were attempting to use GoFundMe to raise money to rebuild the club and that was unsuccessful.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby Reznal » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:15 pm

neddy1967 wrote:I forgot you will also need to pass a Police check.
Having said all that you could just say stuff it I bought these Estes motors in Melbourne and I'm going down to the park to let them off but if anyone sees you in this cancel culture we live in the police will probably come for a visit then you will have to explain the lack of paperwork. There is also air clearance if it goes over 400 feet. This one is a hassle for RC glider pilots as well.
Neddy


I feel like a huge problem with these rules is that they are very open to interpretation.. If this prohibits C class and lower, I find it strange that I can purchase C and lower online, delivered to my house but they won't deliver D class+ to SA due to restrictions.
The 400ft rule is CASA and is only for E-F motors or rockets above 500 grams as far as I have seen.
Also after reading the safework site again, I can see that kopius is right, you don't seem to need the pyrotechnician licence unless you are using actual fireworks, a ptp permit is what you are after and even then I find it strange that we are able to purchase up to 3kg of black powder without the ptp.

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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby neddy1967 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:05 pm

Well all of this has had the positive effect of spurring me into action. I have written to Safe work SA to get to the bottom of this. So I will post comms here. This is for my own interest but also for my brother who manages one of the Hobby Habit stores as they also use to sell Estes kits until the regulations became too prohibitive.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby neddy1967 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:46 pm

Quick question Reznal. How are you getting motors delivered as every hobby store I have seen online won't ship any size motors to S.A. due to "legislation changes" i.e. Vogel, Front line hobbies? I was thinking that if I had a permit to possess engines I would still have to drive interstate then drive them back.
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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby Reznal » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:40 pm

neddy1967 wrote:Quick question Reznal. How are you getting motors delivered as every hobby store I have seen online won't ship any size motors to S.A. due to "legislation changes" i.e. Vogel, Front line hobbies? I was thinking that if I had a permit to possess engines I would still have to drive interstate then drive them back.
Neddy


I purchased a 24 pack from rcma model and hobby (https://www.rcmodelaircraft.com.au/). I thought it was their site that stated they would not ship to SA from D motors, but I don't actually see a warning in the description on their site about it.
Maybe I had seen the warning when looking at D motors on another site and got them mixed up, not to sure now honestly..
Would be awesome if you hear back and let us know what you hear from Safe Work, I have applied for my ptp today so hopefully that doesn't take to long and there's not much more to it, at least for motors up to D.

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Re: RE: Re: South Australian regulations

Postby kopius » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:37 am

neddy1967 wrote:Quick question Reznal. How are you getting motors delivered as every hobby store I have seen online won't ship any size motors to S.A. due to "legislation changes" i.e. Vogel, Front line hobbies? I was thinking that if I had a permit to possess engines I would still have to drive interstate then drive them back.
Neddy
Australian Rocketry, the very company that provides this free forum can ship motors to you right now.

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Re: South Australian regulations

Postby Reznal » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:12 am

I have been out to talk with a model plane club at St Kilda called Constellation Model Flying Club and have asked about rockets.
Apparently the MASA insurance they have covers rockets aswell and we are able to fly rockets out there with membership which is $310 per year.


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