Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Discussions on low powered model rockets using E powered motors and below.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Viking
Rocket Crew
Rocket Crew
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 2:54 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Viking » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:17 pm

Raaahbin wrote:While I agree about the quality of our own Aussie-grown SCR igniters, I have to say my experience with them on a standard Estes launch controller is contrary to the above: you cannot test an SCR igniter for continuity on an Estes controller. The continuity current is above the firing current threshold for an SCR igniter: I tell my kids to give the countdown, then insert the safety key, because the SCR igniter will fire at that point.


Very good point.
It is the current drawn by the incandescent globe in the Estes controllers that causes the issue.
You can simply remove the globe and the controller will work as intended, although obviously without continuity check. Neither the Safety Code or Safe Launch Practices documents require continuity check, only a safety interlock (key)

Easiest option while keeping the continuity check is to replace the standard globe with a 6V rated LED globe with a BA9S / T11 bayonet base.
The LED's draw around 20 - 40mA which is much less than the No Fire current for the SCR igniters (~150mA).
Attachments
BA9S.PNG
BA9S.PNG (83.2 KiB) Viewed 2010 times
Simon
WARS #24 / AMRS #54 L2

User avatar
Viking
Rocket Crew
Rocket Crew
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 2:54 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Viking » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:28 pm

SpaceManMat wrote:I'd be surprised if Blake was actually out of ignites, possibly just a inventory issue.

When I looked a few months back the site showed something like 90 packs in stock, thought I had plenty of time to get an order together!
When I saw they were OOS it surprised me a bit but I figured they were super popular. You could be right tho, might be an inventory issue.
Simon
WARS #24 / AMRS #54 L2

User avatar
kopius
Elle3
Elle3
Posts: 2894
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby kopius » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:52 pm

Firstly, thanks to everyone for the good reports on the SCR igniters, we worked very hard to make sure they are literally the best LPR igniter on the market. We do actually have a bunch of packets in stock, they just aren't reflected as we had an internationally order which was cancelled due to funding issues, so they just need to be added online. You can order those right now and everything will be OK.

Jim, as Marty said, if you go along to a MARS launch he will be able to sort you out. I reckon he could even rip out a 3 pack from some motors and we will sort out the pack later on ;-) Once you use a SCR igniter, you will never want to touch an Estes igniter again.

As others have mentioned, Estes controllers rely heavily on a light bulb and high resistance igniter as the 'safety circuit' which is a terrible and dangerous design. Like the SCR igniters, electric matches or any other high quality igniter will igniter on testing of the continuity as Estes do not have any form of resistor on the circuit. SCR Controllers on the other hand DO have safety built in and subsequently will fire SCR igniters, electric matches AND Estes igniters, all while keeping everyone safe from accidental launching when simply testing the continuity circuit.

Please let us know if we can assist you further, otherwise have a great time at the MARS launch!
QRS Secretary

AMRS #3 L3 ACO
Life member of QRS

NAR L2 #98260

MDRA Member #0241

Sonny_Jim
Rocket Onlooker
Rocket Onlooker
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:13 pm

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Sonny_Jim » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Well I popped down to Brunel Hobbies today and picked up a set of Estes igniters, wasn't exactly a great range but the staff were friendly and helpful. Also noticed that the pack I picked up were there crumbly, black coated ones, but with careful handling and insertion they went off just fine.

The parachute has a bit of a burn mark (whoops, not enough wadding) but I just call that battle damage ;)

Thanks for all the help guys!

User avatar
OverTheTop
It's only money...
It's only money...
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby OverTheTop » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Good to hear you are back in the air!

I like the idea of changing your globe out and putting in an LED. V.simple!
TRA #13430
L3
"Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

Raaahbin
Rocket Flyer
Rocket Flyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:10 pm
Location: Brunswick West, Victoria
Contact:

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Raaahbin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:59 pm

It may be necessary to put a resistor in series with the LED bulb as well as swapping out the incandescent bulb - while the LED doesn't require more than the firing current, it will not limit the current that flows through (unless it already has a resistor in the assembly). Using I = V/R, with a fixed V (approx. 6V, assuming it's 4 AA batteries in series), you'll need to make R high enough to keep I below the firing current. Assuming the igniter itself has a low resistance, let's aim for say 60mA (neglecting the resistance of the LED and the igniter) 0.06 = 6/R, therefore R=100Ω

That's relying entirely on my very limited exposure to electronics in high school physics, so I wouldn't go putting my face over the rocket while testing it :)
TRA L2 | AMRS L2
TRA #13936
MARS #28

Total Impulse (Ns):
2019: 2189 (86% K) :)
2018: 736 (58% J) :cry:
2017: 2826 (55% L) :D
2016: 2006 (78% K) :|
2015: 2809 (55% L) :)
2014: 1565 (61% K) :|

User avatar
OverTheTop
It's only money...
It's only money...
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby OverTheTop » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:22 pm

Most of the LED replacement bulbs, like the one pictured earlier in the thread, have the resistor integral with the assembly. That makes life easy!

You can add a LED youself, and you will need to put a resistor in if you are just using plain LEDs, as Raaahbin explained.
TRA #13430
L3
"Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

User avatar
Viking
Rocket Crew
Rocket Crew
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 2:54 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Viking » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:36 pm

Raaahbin wrote:...(unless it already has a resistor in the assembly)...

The BA9S / T11 type should have a current limiting resistor inside the assembly.
I emphasize should only because, well, Chinese quality control and all that.
It wouldn't hurt to sacrifice an igniter to test the controller with LED swap. (not in a motor!)

These things are usually high brightness LED's so a 12v rated LED 'bulb' might be a better choice, at 6V the current would then be somewhere around 5-10mA and it wouldn't blind you :D
Simon
WARS #24 / AMRS #54 L2

Raaahbin
Rocket Flyer
Rocket Flyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:10 pm
Location: Brunswick West, Victoria
Contact:

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Raaahbin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:52 pm

It's certainly worth a shot - they're only $1 for two bulbs on eBay, so for that price I'll take a gamble and order both 6V and 12V. Might even go for a different colour if I can find it! Bung a multimeter on it and it should be possible to get a pretty good idea of the expected current before even hooking up an igniter.
TRA L2 | AMRS L2
TRA #13936
MARS #28

Total Impulse (Ns):
2019: 2189 (86% K) :)
2018: 736 (58% J) :cry:
2017: 2826 (55% L) :D
2016: 2006 (78% K) :|
2015: 2809 (55% L) :)
2014: 1565 (61% K) :|

User avatar
kopius
Elle3
Elle3
Posts: 2894
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby kopius » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:00 pm

Just throwing it out there... For anyone that is not comfortable with modifying a controller (which should already work correctly), the SCR Controllers run as standard a LED with a resistor... JOB DONE! :wink:
QRS Secretary

AMRS #3 L3 ACO
Life member of QRS

NAR L2 #98260

MDRA Member #0241

Raaahbin
Rocket Flyer
Rocket Flyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:10 pm
Location: Brunswick West, Victoria
Contact:

Re: Where to buy 2302 igniters in Dandenong/Melbourne?

Postby Raaahbin » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:09 pm

I tried this today with some green LEDs I bought off eBay.

First, the bad news: those LED assemblies are terrible quality. Both broke as soon as I went to plug them in - the force of the spring contact at the base of the socket was enough to cause the contact at the end of the assembly to break and fall inside the housing. I complained to the seller, and they're going to send me some more that hopefully will have better quality control. However, since I already had the bulbs here, I had a go at repairing them by pulling the outer collar off the assembly (in the process, getting a good look at the resistor wired in to the unit), building it up with a small piece of epoxy clay to support the end contact, and sliding the collar back on.

So now, the good news: the repair worked, so I popped the LED "bulb" in where the old incandescent bulb had gone, and tested it. Success! A very bright green continuity light, and a tiny trickle of current when hooked up to the multimeter. Hooked up an SCR igniter, tested continuity: very bright green light, no sign of firing the igniter. The only criticism is it's a bit too bright, but that should be fine in bright daylight.

Apart from needing to find a more reliably-built LED bulb replacement, a perfect solution!

The bulbs I ordered were these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320746283356?ul_noapp=true
TRA L2 | AMRS L2
TRA #13936
MARS #28

Total Impulse (Ns):
2019: 2189 (86% K) :)
2018: 736 (58% J) :cry:
2017: 2826 (55% L) :D
2016: 2006 (78% K) :|
2015: 2809 (55% L) :)
2014: 1565 (61% K) :|


Return to “Low Powered Rocketry”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests