F-Motor Record???

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OverTheTop
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby OverTheTop » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:30 am

Search for "lead shot" on eBay. A couple of bucks gets you a couple of hundred grams. Or maybe a fishing shop like BCF.

Alternatively you can melt solder to whatever shape you want (if you have a soldering iron :D ), with a small volume penalty. It is only about 76% the density of lead so needs more space. 8.4g/ml.
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Jordz
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby Jordz » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:34 am

Buy some sinkers and melt them down in the stove. Pour into your mould and its done.

That tail cone still looks restrictive and your engine block seems like its way further forward than it needs to be. Any reason for that?

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby Wingnut » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:33 pm

Late last year I bought some lead shot for $5.50 per Kg from Hitech Radiators. They're located at 166 Boniface Street, Archerfield. It's not a regular stocked item. You need to order it a couple of days in advance. Phone Glen on 0412 336 277.

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F-Motor Record???

Postby kopius » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:14 am

Hopefully the below answers a few of your queries and perhaps even helps you get a better understanding of some elements that many are unaware of.

1. Motor temperature: without giving you the answer, if you log into the AMRS website (http://www.rocketry.org.au) and look under documentation, you can find the motor testing manual which will have that answer. Having a read of this document will expand your knowledge of what motors go through to be permitted for use.

2. We have had a few enquires about the F10 motors of recent, just to clarify, these motors are/were manufactured by Aerotech (including the motors that apogee sells). Currently there is limited to no stock available. Aerotech no longer sells them and Apogee maybe has some 6sec delay motors only. Because of this, there is very low chance there will be any available for the next shipment (and perhaps future shipments depending again on availability). With any rocket, it is highly encouraged to design it around motors and other components that are readily available/accessible. Whilst the F10 might be an ideal motor for altitude, if it unobtainable (at least in longer delays) then it isn't going to help much.

3. I did a rocket job that requires 4kg of lead shot and still have a container of about 6kg left over. You can have 23grams of that if you like. FYI, I usually source my lead shot from gun stores who use it in shotguns.

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:29 pm

Ok, that gives me a bit to think about, thanks Blake and everyone.

Just one final question.

I have heard that CTI allows for the delay to be elongated, however, I am not sure that this is correct, I can't seem to find where this was said. Can the delay on an Aerotech/Apogee be elongated? The Apogee F10 currently has only an F10-6 currently in stock (on the website, not sure if this is right) and I need an Apogee F10-11.6. I was hoping that maybe you could add a different type of delay grain that burns double as slow and putting that in. Can you do that?
Thanks

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L1- AMRAAM 2- H54

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:45 am

From what I understand, the delay grain is made up of; Airfloat charcoal, Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur. Could I add a bit extra of some of these to make the the delay longer?
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby SpaceManMat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:26 pm

Altering the delay in anyway other than how specified by the manufacture effectively de-certifies it. It's not straight forward as to how it will behave once modified. Suggest you look at electronic deployment.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:29 pm

Yes, I looked at electronic deployment, but the units seemed very heavy compared to the rest of the rocket. Can you take out the delay without de-certifying it?
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby SpaceManMat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:34 pm

Not farmilar with that motor, usually you remove the black powder charge.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:39 pm

Yeah okay.

I'll start doing some simulations then.
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby SpaceManMat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:51 pm

What is your weight budget, usually weight is added to the nose cone to optimize height and increase stability. My 38mm MD avionics, including battery, tracker, Raven 3 nose cone brackets, bulk plate and sled and recovery U bolt weigh in at 96g. A lot of this was designed into the brackets, u bolt etc to get the weight up. If you remove the altimeter, downsize the battery and simplify the recovery harness attachment then you should be able to get the weight down to around 30-50g. It's all about designing and then building the bay to your requirements.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:13 pm

I don't really have a weight budget as such.

How heavy is your Raven 3? Ausrocketry has 70G in brackets but wasn't sure if this meant 70grams or not.
Would I also have to take anything else like a housing for the electronics or an external ejection charge into account?

Thanks

-James
L1- AMRAAM 2- H54

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OverTheTop
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby OverTheTop » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:21 pm

70G is the rating of the accelerometer in the device. If you accelerate greater than 70G it pegs and the altimeter will not be able to accurately calculate the accel-based velocity and altitude figures (calculated by integrating acceleration once or twice). The baro is still functional and accurate though. If you are boosting over 70G there is a 250G version that can cope with the higher accelerations.

Mass is 6.6g, as per the Users Manual on the web.

I run many ravens (I have six currently :shock: ) and they have never let me down.

Would I also have to take anything else like a housing for the electronics or an external ejection charge into account?

Of course. You can be minimalist about it though, to conserve mass. As an example, smaller batteries weigh less but give you less pad time. You select according to your design constraints and build capabilities.
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby jhurst7 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:49 pm

Oh okay, that helps a lot.

Just wondering how the Ravens work, do they trigger an ejection charge that ejects the recovery device, or do they eject it another way?
Thanks

-James
L1- AMRAAM 2- H54

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SpaceManMat
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Re: F-Motor Record???

Postby SpaceManMat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:12 pm

The Raven 3 has 4 output channels. Most people connect them up to an ematch, but there are other ways to do it. You will need a small black powder charge for the ematch to ignite. By default the Raven is configured for 2 apogee triggers for a drouge chute and 2 low alitiude triggers for a main chute (2 channels are used per chute If you want redundancy). If you only want to fly a main chute then you would only need to connect a single ematch that is connected to the apogee channel, but you might want to add a second for insurance.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing


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