clust-o-matic

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OverTheTop
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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby OverTheTop » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:59 pm

Refering to the video on the earlier page, you say, "Big Deal. 50W 12V lights have a resistance of 4.2ohms (50/12). Igniters are much lower resistance than that!"

The hot resistance of the bulbs is 4.2ohms. When the filament is cold it is about five times lower in resistance. So each filament is less than an ohm, not far different to an igniter.

The smart-FETs that it uses are protected against many things. These devices are typically protected from overvoltage, overcurrent, overheating. If you are designing anything with FETs they are very robust and well worth considering if you can afford the extra cost.
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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:11 pm

vance2loud wrote:From what I could find they used a NIF5003N smartFET 42v 14A.
http://www.ausrocketry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1974 has a broken link that refers to this.
If someone still has one they might be able to get some photos to help.

Hi Vance,

I stand corrected, http://au.element14.com/on-semiconductor/nif5003nt1g/smart-mosfet-n-42v-1-25w-sot-223/dp/1453670 But please note "Availability: No Longer Manufactured"
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby vance2loud » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:38 pm

CATO wrote:Hi Vance,

I stand corrected, http://au.element14.com/on-semiconductor/nif5003nt1g/smart-mosfet-n-42v-1-25w-sot-223/dp/1453670 But please note "Availability: No Longer Manufactured"

That's ok, I just thought it might be of interest to anyone trying to replicate it.
For the record I haven't done any circuit design for decades so any advice from me could be superseded just like that part.
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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby StanO » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:23 am

Hi, I'm new to the forum and haven't figured out just how this one works. I reside in Oregon, USA and was in pursuit of a Clust-O-Matic and found this topic. It doesn't appear as if anyone is going to make any more. But if by chance someone is going to make them I would buy one. Just saying...

Cheers,
StanO

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby sather » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:34 am

PK wrote:Sorry guys, but I've made the decision to step back (further) from hobby rocketry. This means no more making stuff for folks.
The build thread for the clust-o-matic has the schematics and parts, you should be able to put some together.

PK out...


Sorry, guys... late to the dance as usual. I am a Clust-o-matic user and have several in hand, all in committed projects and (sorry) not for sale. However, I have an early one (green translucent board), and I can follow the traces and come up with a schematic (but only with your express permission) if someone wants to run a new (authorized) batch. Unfortunately, it does look like the RTF 5003N chips are no longer available. I do not know if another (improved?) chip could be substituted, since all electronic stuff is to me pure magic.

Unsolicited testimonial - I am a huge fan of the Clust-o-matic. It feels a giant void in rocketry and AFAIK there is NOTHING to replace it. I have air started up to 8 motors (2 Clust-o-matics, set to fire at staggered times) and they work without failure every time. I believe the issue in our hobby is that we are a relatively small community / market. When a new product appears, sales taper off after the initial burst. Since a market economy favors designed obsolescence, recurring sales occur in products that improve with time (i.e. altimeters) or wear out (light bulbs). Occasionally, a wonderful product appears and then goes out of production. The top three IMHO are the Clust-o-matic (clusters, airstarts), the Defy Gravity Tether (recovery), and the Rocket Tilt-o-meter (staging/airstarts). In all three, their initial design and implementation were perfect, and if there were a Hall of Fame in rocketry, they should be in it. (rant over)

Cheers.

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby sather » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:10 am

sather wrote:I have an early one (green translucent board), and I can follow the traces and come up with a schematic (but only with your express permission) if someone wants to run a new (authorized) batch.
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Highest altitude achieved: 21,981' AGL

"Gravity is a cruel and unpredictable mistress"

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby vance2loud » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:20 am

sather wrote:
Sorry, guys... late to the dance as usual. I am a Clust-o-matic user and have several in hand, all in committed projects and (sorry) not for sale. However, I have an early one (green translucent board), and I can follow the traces and come up with a schematic (but only with your express permission) if someone wants to run a new (authorized) batch. Unfortunately, it does look like the RTF 5003N chips are no longer available. I do not know if another (improved?) chip could be substituted, since all electronic stuff is to me pure magic.
Cheers.

Sather

The NIF5003N chips can still be found albeit in smaller quantities, whether someone can come up with a better replacement, possibly.
If you could post a few pics it would be great, I have only seen the clust-o-matic on here so any extra info would be helpful.
Maybe we might be able to come up with a new/improved/smaller version?
I love the idea of K.I.S.S. but are there any features that you feel would make it better? (maybe continuity LED's or beeper)
TRA #15165 AMRS #50
I do it because i can, I can because I want to, I want to because you said I couldn't. - Unknown
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas Alva Edison

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby sather » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:38 am

vance2loud wrote:The NIF5003N chips can still be found albeit in smaller quantities, whether someone can come up with a better replacement, possibly.
If you could post a few pics it would be great, I have only seen the clust-o-matic on here so any extra info would be helpful.
Maybe we might be able to come up with a new/improved/smaller version?
I love the idea of K.I.S.S. but are there any features that you feel would make it better? (maybe continuity LED's or beeper)


I am very happy with the product as is, but now that you mention it, continuity for each individual igniter might be a nice feature. The downside is that beeps would quickly get out of hand with multiple igniters, and LED's require visible access to board. I like having the trigger external, so you can pick your own activation criteria (timer, program-able altimeter, Tiltometer, etc). It is already pretty small, especially compared to a LiPo battery. If one is flying clusters, min diameter isn't really a high priority, unless av bay placement is an issue. It will easily fit in a 38mm body tube. K.I.S.S. works!

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NIF5003N-D.PDF
"Entropy Demonstrator"

Wisconsin Organization of Spacemodeling Hobbyists
Fox Valley Rocketeers
Indiana Rocketry
Quad Cities Rocketry Society

Highest altitude achieved: 21,981' AGL

"Gravity is a cruel and unpredictable mistress"

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:51 pm

"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:16 am

PK wrote:Sorry guys, but I've made the decision to step back (further) from hobby rocketry. This means no more making stuff for folks.
The build thread for the clust-o-matic has the schematics and parts, you should be able to put some together.

PK out...


Hi PK,

Given the above, I trust it's ok that I'm permitted to build one (some) of these "awesome" devices for personal use...? I did purchase one from "Whoostronics" some time ago and it worked a treat.

Thanking you in advance,
David.
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:43 pm

Hello all,

I have received a few PM's about this (you know who you are), thank you... I have replied but my PM's don't appear to be working (and no my out box is not full).

I used to tinker around making boards about 30 years ago when I completed my associate diploma in electronics (nothing fancy), but times have changed (no more applying photo resist), so I thought I'd try and give it a go... The iron-on transfer approach (Jaycar) seemed expensive, time consuming and cumbersome. I found the website http://www.easyeda.com, if you have time check this out. From the one site you can design, get the boards manufactured, and purchase components... 8)

This was the outcome "a copy of the Whoostronics Clust-O-Matic board", I'm sure I have made design errors, but it is what it is, hope it works, but it was more of a trial for me more than anything else, if it works, it's a bonus :)



And thank you again...

PK_Clust-O-Matic.jpg
PK_Clust-O-Matic.jpg (57.58 KiB) Viewed 5195 times
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:26 pm

Wow, that was quick..... :-)

Works like I brought one (from "Whoostronics"), thanks PK.

IMG_3852.JPG
IMG_3852.JPG (89.92 KiB) Viewed 1439 times
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M

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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby matthew » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:21 am

Nice work, CATO! ;)

Say, since I'm off at university and doing this kind of thing, I figured I may as well have a crack at making my own version.

Would there be any interest in a dual input version? ie. Can fire 2 lots of 2 channels separately,or put on a jumper and make it a single input firing all 4 channels? Would it be a problem if I used 2.54mm/0.1" pitch screw terminals for the input connection (ref: the size on a Raven alt)? The 5mm pitch terminals take up huge amounts of room for such a low voltage, low current connection.

Does the LED actually do anything useful? It seems to light when there's input, but it will be in your rocket so...? You really want to test the output, which is as easy as connecting a light bulb as seen above.

I'm also looking at a layout that should greatly increase the current available to each igniter simultaneously. Probably this will entail a solder on fly lead for connecting the battery rather than screw terminals. Is that a deal breaker for most people? It isn't a problem for me, but I know how to solder...
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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby SpaceManMat » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:08 am

Guess the LED is just for testing.
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Re: clust-o-matic

Postby CATO » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:04 pm

Hi Matt,

matthew wrote:Say, since I'm off at university and doing this kind of thing, I figured I may as well have a crack at making my own version.

Cool... The only reason why I did this was to give SMD/SMT a go....

matthew wrote:Would there be any interest in a dual input version? ie. Can fire 2 lots of 2 channels separately,or put on a jumper and make it a single input firing all 4 channels? Would it be a problem if I used 2.54mm/0.1" pitch screw terminals for the input connection (ref: the size on a Raven alt)? The 5mm pitch terminals take up huge amounts of room for such a low voltage, low current connection.

I guess you can make what ever variant you desire/require...

matthew wrote:Does the LED actually do anything useful?.

If you don't like it, don't include it, but when I connect the e-matches to the terminals I would like a visual indication that the circuit is not in a triggered state...

matthew wrote:I'm also looking at a layout that should greatly increase the current available to each igniter simultaneously. Probably this will entail a solder on fly lead for connecting the battery rather than screw terminals. Is that a deal breaker for most people? It isn't a problem for me, but I know how to solder...

How much current do you need? Each FET is capable of 14~15A depending on the version, the trace is calculated for 30A (80 deg)...
"In thrust we trust"

AMRS 21 L3
TRA 07459 L3

Impulse:
2019: 0 Ns (0% N)
Ns 18: 14,767; Ns 17: 5,973; 16: 34,558; 15: 35,955; 14: 6,016; 13: 10,208
PB - Gorilla N2717WC, H: 10,260', S: 1.14M


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