Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:37 pm

Interesting story on the Soyuz 11! Poor chaps!

RE: Power/switches
I thought exactly same thing, what happens if it goes off. The SuperCap does help. I share your "paranoia" thoughts SMM.
I'm guessing the motion could be quite chaotic and you have something yank off in one direction and before you know it, there is a substantial force in some direction you wouldn't normally expect. If that stands to reason, perhaps almost any orientation of the switch could theoretically have an issue.

RE: Protection against abrasion.
Anyhow, I've moved on from that for now. I've used heat shrink on some of the threads like OTT suggested. Didn't bother applying heat to shrink it, I might want to take it off. It has a second benefit, reducing chance of shorting. While that should never happen...it is comforting.

RE: Remove-Before-Flight Pin
I found a piece of rod on the road and cut it to size, sanded down, got it nice and shiny and made a hemispherical end. Then proceeded to drill a hole through end to insert key-ring. Boy was that steel hard to drill. Finally did it. Re-use/recycle.

Then I drilled a hole in the wood block (where the pin is inserted), for semi-tight fit with 4mm. Then I got next size drill-bit and drilled about 80% of the way through the same hole. So this means the pin doesn't just fall out...it is a conscious effort to remove it. But it isn't too hard to insert.

I assume a steel pin is considered okay? [It won't be flying obviously!]

RE: Disconnecting Bulkhead
I decided to put in a connector. I settled on a Dean-Plug. What I will do is get a small Cable tie and use it to ensure it doesn't come apart.

RE: Battery
I was going to use a LiPo Battery, but saw talk of using extra batteries, so as to ensure that the Raven 3 did not get too much current. This seems like a lot of mucking around in the end, more points of failure, also when I go to ship the rocket down to the Goldcoast to fly, I have to work out how to get the LiPO down there (I know there are a few shipping restrictions). Seemed more hassle then it is worth. So, decided to go for a 9 volt battery. Will get an Energizer 9 volt one for the flight....available everywhere.
I used Bob Smith Epoxy to glue a block above the 9 volt battery as a stop. It mustn't move.


RE: Wiring
Finally figured out where I wanted things. Trying to make sure things seem to be in the logical place; have all the wires/connections focused around one area. I'm not too mad on screwing of wires in to the switch...though it should be okay. I might consider using Eye-Terminals.
I'll see. Admittedly, I'm not terribly happy about the wires from the battery either (particularly the red wire). Something to think about.

Anyhow, here are some pics.

IMG_3968_DEAN_Plug_SML.jpg
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IMG_3967_Battery_Side_SML.jpg
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IMG_3966_Altimiter_Side_SML.jpg
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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby SpaceManMat » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 am

Looks pretty good I think Joe.

With that red battery wire perhaps consider just using some CA glue on the wood block to keep it in place.

One of the other things to consider is lining up the hole in the frame to the hole for the pin. I usually use a brass tube that you can get from hobby stores for this. To give you an idea this is one of the switches I made, the tube is about 2mm from the ID of the nose cone. You can clearly see it is aligned correctly from the outside. Not for space reasons the switch has to unfortunately be mounted vertically.
Image
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:06 pm

Hi SpaceManMat,
I can't visual that switch (lever?) mechanism? in that photo.

The pin/rod I found on the ground, was 4mm...and I knew I had 5/32" (== 3.96mm) holes in the airframe. So I made one of them 4mm. (not much difference). I've sanded down the pin/rod, till it was a close fit...glides past. When I push it through hole i don't get much deflection. I didn't have an brass tubing... so glued a block of wood to the Avionics tray, which brings it out within about 10mm of the inner diameter. Then I drilled a hole through the air-frame into the wood.... everything in position, tightened up, just as it will be at flight. I have markings so i know how to align things up when I assemble it. I did make the start of the wood hold a little bit bigger (4.5mm) for some of the distance, so it is a little forgiving if it is slightly off. I also sanded the pin to hemispherical shape to help it find its way. The pin does have a "little" bit of flex...enough to help. I'm sure it would a lot more fickle if it was stiffer.

Today I decided to make my own little Eye connectors using some thin copper plate. epoxying wire to help it strength wise. Also got some better quality 9 volt clips. I have many memories of these falling apart in my earlier years. Though I suspect I was probably not so gentle on things back then. I'll put a tiny drop of CA glue like you suggested

RE: Battery
To be honest I'm amazed that this nine volt battery with the associated wiring clip is adequate for the task... I know it should be, but it does make me wonder a little. Anyhow it is only two Ematches and only has to deliver a lot of current for a very small amount of time.

Off to talk to someone about paints on Friday.

Thanks for your feed back, photos and suggestions.

Cheers

Joe
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby SpaceManMat » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:48 pm

Sounds like you have the switch and hole figured out, there are of course many ways to solve issues. It’s about finding what works for you.

In mine the top of the brass tube is ground away with a file so that the trigger sits down inside the tube. Inserting the pin forces the trigger up opening the switch.

I usually use Lipo batteries, with the 9 volt I would zip tie them end to end. Also most 9 volts are simply a collection of cells that are sandwiched together not soldered / welded. There are reports of 9 volts loosing power under launch conditions due to them being compressed. I cannot remember which type to buy, but it’s been discussed here before. If in doubt take them apart and see.
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby kopius » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:02 am

Great work Joe, as for 9V batteries, (much like Glad Bake) use Duracell (accept no substitutes) as they used to have welded cells, however have now switched to plates which are set in epoxy and SOOO much better again.


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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:32 am

SMM:
Yes - many ways to skin a cat. Sounds like you had a lot more constraints to deal with.

ok. Going to pull apart two batteries (with the boys) and see how they compare.

Thanks for tips.

Cheers

Joe
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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby kopius » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:33 pm

I should mention the MN1604 and MX1604 are the coppertop batteries if you are looking for a specific part number.

FYI, here are old (left) and new (right) Duracell internals.
Image


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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:13 pm

Cool. Thanks!

Batteries
Got the boys to pull apart batteries.

IMG_3988_good_pic_SML.jpg
IMG_3988_good_pic_SML.jpg (155.37 KiB) Viewed 552 times


I've obviously got old-construction of Duracell on left hand side. Must be a MN1604. I take it the MX1604 is the 'Ultra' version.

MN1604 - all cells are soldered (welded) on. Seems to be well constructed.


Paints
Finally purchased some paints. Decided to give Two-Pak paints a go. Never used Two-Pak paints, but always a first time..
I have a feeling Two-Paks paints are probably not as forgiving as acrylic paints, so I guess I'll just need to do a bit of practice painting.
What I did like about the Two-Paks was the ability to have greater control over the delivery of the paint. I'm guessing that if I do get a spray gun with a finer nozzle, I can potentially get a finer paint job, so reduce skin friction drag.

Most likely looking at:-
- Primer (2 or three coats)...sanding back between coats...trying to remove lines/transitions
- Paint the design (Still to figure out)
- Clear (not sure how many layers).

Anyhow, got some time to think about it and research it a little more.

Cheers guys!
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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:26 pm

G'day,
I purchased some E-Matches from AusRocketry today.... preparing to do test ejection when parachutes arrive and Licence is processed.

Says they are 24" long. Very long!

I assume these are just this long to make them suitable for almost any run-distance required.

I'll be having to cut them down so I don't have 20" of wire floating about. Rather do that than wind them around the Eye-bolt.

Re:Testing
It appears that it might be easiest for me to do two lots of tests
1. Test that the battery/board has no problems firing off the igniters (with no ejection charge)

2. Another test without the Raven-3...(run some wire ...using a simple controller)...just to make sure that the rockets pieces separate nicely and I can confirm how much Ejection charge to use.

From my investigations, Black Powder is almost impossible to get hold of...it isn't transported. I know I can get hold of Pyrodex P and I've read that it can be used with HPR, so long as one confines it for sufficiently long.
Now, on the day when I do launch it I'd prefer to use the same 'stuff' that I tested it with.
Can someone recommend a place to purchase it from down there? or can something else be arranged?

I'd purchase some through Blake, but I can't see anything like it on the site (unless I'm looking in the wrong spot).
Thanks Muchly!

Cheers

Joe
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby SpaceManMat » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:34 pm

Yeah the igniters are a one size suits all applications, chop them down as required.

Yes seperate tests are required for testing altimeter / deployment charges. I usually just use a light for testing altimeters, it allows for a bunch of different tests and they produce a reasonable load(torch globe not led). For the ejection charge tests be careful if you use an Estes controller, they do not have a proper continuity tester so will fire if you test for continuity, I believe the Aus rocketry controllers are fine.

Talk to Blake about powder, he may know how to get some transported. I wish he sold the stuff, buying a kilo at a time is over the top. The other option is to do the ejection charge tests onsite or perhaps the day before if your travel arrangement allows?
QRS: 124
AMRS: 32 L2 RSO
Highest Altitude: 13,647 feet
Fastest Flight: Mach 1.55
Largest Motor: CTI 1115J530 IM
Current Project: X Wing

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:24 am

Ahhh thanks for tip about continuity test with Este equipment
Yes, the current requirements are so much less for eMatches.

I'll check the current.

Cheers
Joe
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:18 pm

I've finally got everything together to start putting the primer on. Large air compressor, 1.5mm spray gun and made up a jig to hang the rocket from the garage roller door. (Using bricklayers thread ..... very strong).

Spoke to the mob who sold me the Paints, ColorTek. They had a lot of very helpful advice about preparation. They advised me to:-
* Wash the fibreglass down with warm soapy water,
* Then dry down and then use metho to clean it.

After this they said to:-
* Sand it down with 240grit sand paper.
* Wipe clean with damp cloth
* Dry down with another clean dry clothe.

They were very particular about making sure I clean it well before sanding it because if you don't, you can introduce dirt/grime into the sanded area and this can cause problems with the Primer.

Will wipe down again about an hour before painting with damp cloth and then dry down. Must have it VERY clean.

Nothing really exciting to show, but thought I'd attach a few photos of what I did anyhow...

IMG_4057_Cleaning_with_Soap_and_Water_sml.jpg


IMG_4086_wipe_with_Damp_clothe_sml.jpg


IMG_4081_Sanding_sponge_sml.jpg
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IMG_4084_Sanded_Surface_SML.jpg
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IMG_4053_Taped_up_End_sml.jpg



I've taped up the coupler sections, so I don't get paint on them. I've also put tape on the interior of the air-frame tubes where holes are, so I don't get paint getting in there. I'll probably put some toothpick plug in tapped shear-pin holes, just to give my self less work tapping them clean.

If all goes to plan, I'll have a few pics of entire rocket primed and sanded on Sunday evening.

After that... I'll need to decide what colour scheme to use. Hard decision to make!

Cheers

Joe
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby OverTheTop » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:28 pm

Looking good Joe. I hope laying down the paint goes well.

You know, the more you sand rockets the more you get to like sanding :wink:

I was actually just kidding. You never get to like sanding. You start to think about ways to not have to sand on your next build :|
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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:41 pm

Very funny :-) I'd bought heaps of sandpaper so I wouldn't be running out....

It is very hot up here in Cairns and humid, so didn't finish all the sanding of the Primer. Thought it would be best to rest as it is all to easy to make errors when hot and tired.

Anyhow, here are some pictures.

Excuse the my rough work clothes. No love lost when I get more dirt on these.

IMG_4110_sml.jpg
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Rough Surface
IMG_4134_sml.jpg
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Perfect surface
IMG_4133_sml.jpg


At one place, there was a little too much paint, so had to remove excess, sand and then re-apply Primer and then some fine filler. With another two more coats on top of this, very hard to tell of the issue.

IMG_4114_sml.jpg



Started wet-sanding (800 grit).

IMG_4135_sml.jpg


Coming up pretty well.



Cheers for your encouragement and advice.
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018

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Re: Joe Turners L2 Build Thread

Postby joeman » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:12 pm

G'day,
Finally made it to the paint shop. Had a great chat with the bloke there about paints. Very knowledgeable. Among the many things I discovered is that 2K means two components and the K is for Komponente in German. Hence the 'K'

In terms of selection:-
* Steering clear of Acyrlic + Thinner as it is soft and defeats whole purpose of the hard 2K primer. Also apparently not good with humidity > 75% and I'm sure it is near 100% here.
* Steering away from 2k single stage as colours are limited.
* So, decided to go for Basecoat + Clearcoat, because I get a wider range of colours to choose from and I get the durable finish, easy to clean and make it shine.


Decided to paint the rocket two colours - keep it really simple. One colour from bottom to the avionics bay and second colour for payload air-frame + NC. No masking/painting. Will go for Decals.

Probably do the paint between Xmas and new year. Can get a bit quiet here. Will send some pics.


RE: Decals
Anyone know what the deal is for Decals from AusRocketry? i.e. providing design? format? and turn around time from ordering ?
(if ordered mid January?)

Cheers!

Joe
L1 - Callisto (H133) - 11-Jan-2016 - LCO
L2 - March Fly (1633K940) - 18-Mar-2018


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